Comment from Lorainpublic
November 20, 2008, 7:10 am

You want us to support an industry that’s losing money at every turn yet you still send people home after 4 or 5 hours worked and they get 8 hours pay?

You want us to support workers who pay nothing for their health benefits and most of the rest of us have to pay hundreds of dollars a month for health insurance?

You want us to support workers who sweep floors at $25.00 an hour and slap tires on cars for more money than a nurse who tends to critically sick patients?

You want us to support a group of people who abuse sick time to the extent that some workers see the inside of a plant maybe 60 days of the year and are still employed?

You want us to support a group of people who have education benefits to take STAINED GLASS classes at $400.00 a pop?

You boast award winning for full-sized vans when there are only two companies in the country that make them…hard not to win when you have a 50/50 chance.

Union members have lived the high-life for many years and it NEEDS to come back and bite you in the rear to bring your attitudes back down to earth with the rest of us.

Union members need to use their “brotherhood” to stop demanding more for themselves and demand LESS for their executives and fewer perks.

That is MY money you are begging for…and only under MY conditions are you going to get it…

The days of living high on the hog are gone.

Comment from DonTCare
November 20, 2008, 7:39 am

Didn’t the steel mills prove anything too….

Comment from justsaying
November 20, 2008, 8:01 am

I can’t and won’t, complain about a company that takes care of it’s employees *to many over look them**.. and I sure as hell don’t want to **HAVE**, to buy foreign cars in America.

Comment from Concerned2
November 20, 2008, 8:36 am

Lorainpublic

Where do you get your facts?

The auto industry has changed in the last 30 years. The workers dont receive their insurance for free anymore. Money is taken out of their pay just like you and me.

Union members also have their fees taken out just to BE members and to have that “brotherhood”.

I completely agree with justsaying. The auto industry tries to take care of their employees the best they can. Do you know that 1 out of every 10 people in this entire country are involved somehow in the auto industry?

The economic ‘problems’ in this Country did not start because someone at Ford makes $25/hr to sweep floors.

How about a little support for your Country? Or better yet… .move to China.

Comment from silkskin1960
November 20, 2008, 8:54 am

LMAO!!!!

Comment from silkskin1960
November 20, 2008, 8:55 am

YALL ARE TOO FUNNY…LMAO!!!!

Comment from Smira29595
November 20, 2008, 9:01 am

How about the fact that these top executives flew to DC in their PRIVATE JETS!!!? And my bet is they did not stay at the local Super 8 or Motel 6.

Comment from Concerned2
November 20, 2008, 9:12 am

Don’t you think it was important for them to be there on time with no concerns/delays?

I’m not saying that anyone is perfect and there are definite changes that need to be made but come on already. I think that part of the ‘plan’ should include selling the private jets.

The point is that there are so many people that are directly involved with the auto industry that we have to help. We need to support our Country with directly involves the auto industry.

And by the way…..GM’s CFO flies commerical…. never takes the private jet… look it up.

Comment from Smira29595
November 20, 2008, 9:17 am

Conserned2 TRY AGAIN
The CEOs of the big three automakers flew to the nation’s capital yesterday in private luxurious jets to make their case to Washington that the auto industry is running out of cash and needs $25 billion in taxpayer money to avoid bankruptcy.

The CEOs of GM, Ford and Chrysler may have told Congress that they will likely go out of business without a bailout yet that has not stopped them from traveling in style, not even First Class is good enough.

All three CEOs - Rick Wagoner of GM, Alan Mulally of Ford, and Robert Nardelli of Chrysler - exercised their perks Tuesday by flying in corporate jets to DC. Wagoner flew in GM’s $36 million luxury aircraft to tell members of Congress that the company is burning through cash, asking for $10-12 billion for GM alone. web page: www abcnews.go.com/Blotter/WallStreet/story?id=6285739&page=1

Comment from Concerned2
November 20, 2008, 9:23 am

I said CFO…. F…….

Dont need to try again…

Comment from angelfire
November 20, 2008, 9:38 am

Ohio voted Bush and they’re getting what they deserve. Other states have been bad off for years, your vote is just now catching up to you. I see this time you figured out that “trickle down” is just that. While money doesn’t trickle down, poor DOES tricle up.

Comment from Concerned2
November 20, 2008, 9:40 am

Not everyone in Ohio voted for Bush. You are avoiding the point of needing to pull together as a Country…..

Comment from Smira29595
November 20, 2008, 9:41 am

Well then if the CFO flew commercial and the CEO flew the private jet I see that as more of a waste of money. Why NOT Car pool? (So to speak)

Comment from angelfire
November 20, 2008, 9:41 am

Who cares if a janitor makes $25 and hour when the CEO is making millions….and then millions more in perks and stock options? You people are crazy. Why always pick on the little guy and never look at management? No wonder you’re in a depression. Just be sure and get those thank you letters in to the President before he leaves office.

Comment from courtneyo
November 20, 2008, 9:44 am

I think it’s funny how we’re so mad about the government spending our money on things like keeping jobs in this country and nobody seems to care about the fact that there are TONS of people on government assistance that don’t need to be on it…if they all worked maybe they’d be able to buy cars and this wouldn’t even be an issue…that’s the thing about America…we help people out. For once it’d be nice if we helped ourselves out. Help out the WORKING Americans. You may be mad that the CEO’s spend too much money but what you’re not understanding is that if this bail out doesn’t happen it’s not just the CEO’s that are out of luck. Actually they probably make so much money that they’re fine never working again. And so you think the factory workers that work directly for these companies are lazy…ok what about the factory workers that don’t work directly for these companies? The ones that make the parts that get sent to them. They don’t work for GM, Ford or Chrysler but they will lose their jobs too. This entire country would go bankrupt paying unemployment for all the employees that would lose their jobs w/out GM, Ford and Chrystler.
Do you buy American made products? I know sometimes they’re hard to find, and some items you’ll never find produced in America. But do you even try??
If you want to complain about how the government spends their money then complain about how we don’t seem to want to keep it in this country.

Comment from Concerned2
November 20, 2008, 9:47 am

I believe that every CEO, with the exception of Alan Mulally of Ford, agreed on taking pay cuts/bonuses/using private jets to help cut costs.

The first thing to go at GM was management. They cut white collar by almost 35% a year ago! The management of all 3 companys OBVIOUSLY needs to change…. THAT is obvious.. no one is saying it is not.

The thing is that if we dont help the auto industry … we, as a country, will all be poor.

Comment from angelfire
November 20, 2008, 9:47 am

Pull together as a country? Something tells me the “pulling” will come from us, the workers and the unemployed. Now, here’s my theory. You and I did not get to go to the money party that most of the rich in this country had. We were not invited.

Exxon Mobile was invited and posted the highest earnings per quarter of any corporation IN HISTORY of the US. $17 billion to $20 billion A QUARTER!!! Okay? They definately got to go to Bush’s party. So, let’s provide diplomats to go between Exxon Mobile and GM, Ford, and Chrysler and negotiate a loan from EMobile to the automakers. Since the oil and energy companies won the game — they got all the money — let them bail out industry. Aw, this makes too much sense, no one will do this.

Comment from Concerned2
November 20, 2008, 9:50 am

That is probably the BEST idea I have heard yet!!!!!!

Comment from angelfire
November 20, 2008, 9:57 am

The auto companies could give Exxon Mobile interest in their companies, or work out loan agreements to pay back the money invested with interest. Everyone wins.

It is sad for the country but this will probably break those pesky unions. Those folks who keep our wages high and competitive. Once the union jobs are gone business is free to “reset” everyones wages without losing employees to higher paying jobs.

That is what has happened all over the country. Once the union jobs are gone, people still work, but wages are lower, benefits are rare, and lots more people are on assistance from food banks and the government even thought they have full time jobs.

The rest of the nation has been experiencing this for awhile, it’s just recently getting to Ohio. When will we learn we are all connected?

Comment from Concerned2
November 20, 2008, 10:07 am

I only disagree with the “pesky unions”. They are only “pesky” for people that are not a part of one…..

Comment from joy
November 20, 2008, 10:23 am

no they should no get the money. not when you see the guys sitting in the bars drinking and and getting payed for it. that bull shit.and you see all the time so what the hell is that. thay need to change ever thing if they want that money. you trie living off 7.00 hour for once.its not fun.

Comment from Lindalee56
November 20, 2008, 10:26 am

Lots of people have repetitive jobs, work in !00 degree heat. But having worked at a gas station very close to the Avon Lake Ford plant, I know what lots and lots of these guys do on their lunch break. Thay drink. They come to the gas station, fill their big coolers with beer, and head on back to work. So your van or car is being put togehter by a bunch of guys getting paid great wages, with great benefits, that are drinking on the job. And their supervisors have to know it, you can smell it on them! Won’t catch me buying a Ford.

Comment from Smira29595
November 20, 2008, 10:58 am

Let see I worked 20 years. I got my retirement at 1/2 my base pay. My medical taken care for the rest of my life. NO union. I worked for 10 straight months in 100+ heat some times 48 hours straight with little time to sleep. I could not strike, I did not get overtime pay. Of course my transportation to this remote location was on a company owned plane. If I remember correctly there were 11 of us on the plane, plus crew. So you may think this is unfair. But you see my job was with the USAF. I am so sick of hearing whining coming from the Big 3. But Concerned2 No need to worry the politicians need the support of the Union If they do not get the money now they will in January. And by the way 4/5 of the cars/motorcycles are AMERICAN.

Comment from usmc
November 20, 2008, 11:19 am

I have read comments to both sides pros and cons for the low interest loan for the Big “3″. It doesn’t matter at this point what UAW members or others have made in the past, the future of the economy both across the country and locally will be devistated if the Big “3″ go under. Millions of jobs and pensions will be lost. Ask Lorain and Erie Counties what happened to their economy when the Lorain Ford Plant shut down. Magnify this across the country by millions of jobs and you would see the trickle down effect for all the supporting businesses besides the Big “3″ em;ployees. Just remember what happened to the steel plants and that the retirees lost most of their pension. Not to mention how many people lost their jobs. Imagine the millions of UAW workers seeking jobs on top of the people already looking for work. Or seeking government assistance, such as food stamps, unemployment, ect. This would be coming out of the pockets of the lucky employed. Look at what the banks and AIG did with their baiilout money, shareholders got it and the execs got their parties. Give the loan to the auto makers and let them pay it back. Lets quit the petty arguing amongst ourselves and get down to business. Save our jobs and keep this country going. The government is for themselves only and not really for the people. We all have to pull together.

Comment from MsJones
November 20, 2008, 12:32 pm

I have to say this…I worked for an electrical distributor in inside sales and we handled Ford engine 1 and 2 and the plant in Walton Hills. They would place 10k orders with us….lose them somewhere in the plants and just turn around and reorder…Lots of money just wasted! this happened all the time…money was no object when they placed orders with us….. Do I feel bad for them NO.Ford workers had it made! Sleep on the job! work on the line in shifts, go take naps come back to the line. I know this first hand! When they start whining about losing their jobs and this and that I don’t feel remorse. Go and try to really work for a change and see how much you’ll be whining then!

Comment from MyLyria
November 20, 2008, 12:40 pm

I know for a FACT that UAW workers go to work, clock in, then go back home, or work 2-4 hours and get paid for 10-12 hours. I know for a fact that they slack off at work and do as little work as possible. I know for a fact that they routinely send through defective parts so they can meet their “quota”. The “Big 3″ need to “trim the fact”, startying with slacker workers and wasteful management.

Comment from Cmon
November 20, 2008, 1:00 pm

Man, I drive by different Ford plants all the time, I didn’t know that all the cars in the employee parking lot was full of drunks and no body acutally working.
I find it hard to believe that any place would put up with the accusations if they knew what was going on. I’m sure there are a few deadbeats out there who take advantage of a lack system, but what about the other 99% of the workers in their busting their a** to make a living? Screw all them right!?!
UAW have made concessions and opened their contracts many, many times. It may be a little too late. But all the blame cannot be placed on the workers.

Comment from Concerned2
November 20, 2008, 1:13 pm

Ms. Jones I am surprised by your reply. I have read some of your other blogs on other matters and have much respect for the way that you handle people like Chris Sito . Unfortunately, I dont know anything about Ford and their habits but GM doenst operate that way.

And the being drunk on the line?? That wouldnt happen where i know of … and am not quite sure where it did.

Bottom line….. look at the big picture like usmc!

Comment from MsJones
November 20, 2008, 1:18 pm

concerned2
I am just speaking on my own personal experience with Ford. IMy father worked 30 years and retired from GM and he was a hard worker……no way am I comparing Ford to GM or Chrysler…..Just speaking about what I do know as fact about Ford.

Comment from MsJones
November 20, 2008, 1:20 pm

and thanks for the Sito comment!!

Comment from Concerned2
November 20, 2008, 1:21 pm

I knew I liked you. Also related to hard GM workers. Sad to hear your first hand knowledge on Ford though……

Comment from MsJones
November 20, 2008, 1:24 pm

My father is now deceased and I can just imagine how he would feel now hearing about this crisis. It is sad and it’s going to affect us all in one way or another……

Comment from Concerned2
November 20, 2008, 1:49 pm

Myfather-in-law, GM retiree, is also deceased and i know he wouldl feel the same.

Comment from Chris
November 20, 2008, 2:23 pm

LorainPublic, you seem to have your panties in a bunch this morning. Must be very irritating for you to realize that those “lazy and spoiled” auto workers have gotten away with all those antics you claim for years. You see, my husband was an auto worker for GM. As hard as I may I just cannot remember him being a part of all the accusations you made in your comment. You see, he put in his 30 years and passed away the week after he retired, he never saw one of his retirement checks.
This was after working 7 days a week 12 hours a day for months on end. He raised 2 children, oops let me take that back, I raised 2 children while he lived at General Motors busting his ass to make a living.
Let’s see now,abusing sick time? Over a period of 30 years, I can recall my husband going to work with a broken leg, a concussion, walking pneumonia, and when his health finally caused him to retire he was working with lung cancer. Yup, he took full advantage of the sick benefits GM offered. Now let me set you straight on a few things. You don’t group together a whole crew of people for what you may believe a couple are guilty of.
You don’t blame the workers who punch in and out for the screw ups the execs have made.
You also, need to get your facts straight about the auto workers health care. WE PAY for our health care, just like you do. In fact in the last few years, the UAW has given up many concessions back to the auto companies to keep things afloat.
One more thing: What I find absolutely hilarious, if it wasn’t so dusgusting is this. No one practically batted an eye last month when we bailed out the screw ups on Wall street, the big shot who caused this whole mess, to the tune of 70 billion dollars. Yet, they want to whine and fight the auto industry. While the big shots on wall street are in the process of missmanaging this money again.. Get a grip folks, because if the auto industry goes under in this country we are in for a time this country has never seen. You think things are bad now, you haven’t seen anything yet. It would cost the Government more in unemployment wages then this loan will ever begin to cause. And yes, it’s a loan, it will be repayed. Will unemployment be repaid??Washington needs to wake up and get their heads out of their a**ses.

Comment from Concerned2
November 20, 2008, 2:29 pm

Way to set some people straight Chris!

Comment from Chris
November 20, 2008, 2:45 pm

I am just so sick of watching the comments bashing the auto workers and the unions, concerned2. They can bash the unions all they want, but in the same time, they best look at what kind of future our younger workers have. Thanks to the unions people my age have a retirement. What are the younger workers going to have. Oh yea, they have their 401K’s, that they pay into, that just tanked to the sh*t pile. Well, then they might have SS, but then the Gov. has managed to bleed that almost dry too, by using the money for things it wasn’t supposed to be used for. Should I go on? Knock the unions all you want, but those same unions fought with blood and sweat to protect the workers. Those of you that work in non union shops, I feel sorry for you. Your employers are NOT going to give you squat when you retire. I don’t disagree that there are a few in the unions that are crooked also, but all in all the unions have done a hell of a lot more good than bad. I can’t help but laugh at the fact that the UAW has helped to elect most of the Morons in Washington, lol. Wonder how long before that registers in their empty air heads?

Comment from ThinkB4UWrite
November 20, 2008, 4:04 pm

I have friends that work skilled trades at Ford and GM that tell me they have filled entire 8 hour shifts by playing cards and reading the newspaper. For all the unions did (historically) the people they were organized to protect have mad them a magnet for the lazy and unmotivated. These businesses make an inferor product. Its time to let them go by the wayside. Its not an accident that the five most popular car models are foreign made.

Comment from Chris
November 20, 2008, 4:10 pm

I have friends that work skilled trades at Ford and GM that tell me they have filled entire 8 hour shifts by playing cards and reading the newspaper.
——————————
Do you comprehend what you just wrote? They are skilled trades. Skilled trades repair certain things, electricians, machine repair, plumbers, etc. If it isn’t broke, they don’t fix it!They are there for the purpose of fixing it. You don’t call an electrician to your home if it isn’t broke do you? They obviously didn’t tell you about the times they bust their ass continuesly on days when everything seems to fall apart. Or you didn’t bother to enlighten us on that part of the conversation.

Comment from Lorainpublic
November 20, 2008, 4:10 pm

Chris…

I get my knowledge from:

1. My sister who works at GM, Parma–she doesn’t pay squat for her medical benefits.

2. 2 close acquaintances who work at Ohio Assembly in Avon Lake.

3. I have personal, inside knowledge of the “education benefits” that UAW workers get. I know what GM pays for the totally retarded classes the employees get to take.

4. I have personal inside knowledge of several employees at the Lorain Ford plant that worked only 30-60 days a year and were out on medical the rest of the time.

I don’t know anything about your husband Chris but I know what I know and if these people want money from MY pocket, there better be stringent conditions on what it will be used for.

All union members are not like the situations I have described, but ALL of the union members PROTECT the ones who screw up and should be fired…

Comment from The Raven
November 20, 2008, 4:31 pm

Union members have enjoyed many, many perks for years, lose the perks, take a pay cut down to the prevailing wage in their county…for all employees. Then maybe we can rescue them…not until.

Comment from Lindalee56
November 20, 2008, 4:59 pm

It’s funny how some people just cannot believe that not everyone in the UAW is working their butts off. You want to know where the guys came in, stuffed their coolers with beer (24 packs) and bragged about going back to work and going out to drink on their breaks worked? Avon Lake Assembly on Miller Rd. I too had friends that spoke of napping for 2 hours while on the job. Sure wish I got paid that much money to drink and nap. Don’t try to say it’s not true. May not be everyone, but if you watch someone do this and don’t get them fired for it, you are guilty too. And the UAW is guilty of protecting all the deadbeats. My ex brother in law is one of them.

Comment from Smira29595
November 20, 2008, 5:03 pm

“You don’t call an electrician to your home if it isn’t broke do you?”

I DO NOT PAY ONE TO SIT AROUND ALL DAY TILL SOMETHING IS BROKE! I call them when I need them and pay them accordingly .

Comment from Dan S.
November 20, 2008, 5:11 pm

I didn’t hear anything about how the unions plan on helping the situation, by making future concessions.

And aren’t these the guys who go on strike at the drop of a hat?

Look, if the Big 3 file for bankruptcy protection, they can unload the millstone around their necks that are the unions.

Face it, the industry needs to make some serious changes to get competitive again, so the taxpayers don’t have to bail them out down the road, for making the same mistakes over and over.

Japanese manufacturing plants are operating with U.S. workers, and kicking the Big 3s collective butt in the process.

One huge reason for their success, is that the plants are union free.

The unions that tell workers when to strike, and how much to demand from the automakers.

Yeah, they’re all about doing what’s best for the U.S. economy…

And remember, the unions and workers are two separate things.

I’m sure the workers could have won whatever awards they did, if the unions weren’t there. And could probably win more awards if the unions WEREN’T there telling the workers what they CAN’T do.

So, to be anti-union, isn’t being anti-U.S. worker, as the unions would have you believe, as the representatives wave the flag and fill their pockets, at a time when we can no longer afford them.

Comment from Sarcasm101
November 20, 2008, 6:33 pm

Well everyone is slinging muck so I figure I’ll join in.

Ford Motor of Europe sells some of the BEST, read that BEST cars in all of Europe. Do they sell those same models here? No because their “research” says they aren’t the cars Americans want to buy.

OBVIOUSLY AMERICAN’S DON’T WANT THE CARS THEY SELL HERE NOW!!! What sort of rocket scientist or for that matter CEO of a major company does it take to figure out if you’ve LOST market share for the past 10 years, TRY SOMETHING NEW!!!

They and the oil companies created THIS problem and they all will pay. You rail about ExxonMobil and their gross profits from earlier this year, EARLIER THIS YEAR!!!

Oil is down 50% since July, 2008. What do you think their profits will be in the 4th quarter???

Trucks and SUV’s were all the rage in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s and Ford, GM and to some extent Chrysler ALL profited HANDSOMELY during those “boom” times.

Now its time to pay the piper for NOT seeing $4 gas, for NOT seeing that people can’t actually AFFORD a $45,000 SUV, for NOT seeing that the WORLD was changing and they don’t get to call the shots.

About the UAW. How is THIS for a novel idea? Did the Union hold Ford or GM accountable for being a profitable company? Did the Union hold Ford or GM accountable for building QUALITY cars that people WANT TO BUY???

Its REALLY easy to sling mud back and forth but the bottom line is BOTH sides failed and BOTH sides are paying right now. The company wanted MORE profit, MORE sales right NOW. The Union wanted MORE pay, MORE benefits, MORE retirement right NOW.

The Union had a golden opportunity in the early 1980’s to lay the hammer down on the Japanese and they missed it. You’ve seen the movie Gung-Ho right? Thats not such a farce. If the UAW would have been worried about winning the battle with the Japs instead of winning against their own company we would not be having this discussion. In the 80’s the unions were worried about their members first, company second and its still that way today. How shortsighted, you can’t have a JOB without the stupid company.

Comment from Dan S.
November 20, 2008, 7:11 pm

Sarcasm…

In all fairness to Ford, the cars they sell in Europe probably wouldn’t pass the inspections for sale in this country.

The standards for diesel exhaust are much more strict here, along with some other things.

Until a few months ago, I’ve been driving Peugeot’s for over a decade, because they’re well built cars. But you’ll not see any new ones on US roads.

Years ago the US told Peugeot to make some engineering changes in their vehicles and the French company told the US to suck an egg, or something to that effect and stopped exporting their cars here.

I love the movie Ronin for the car chases involving Peugeot’s…

Now might be the time for the US to lower it’s standards on the amount of particulate matter it will accept from those fine little diesels that are doing well in Europe.

Comment from ctReader
November 20, 2008, 9:45 pm

We need to keep sending more billions to other countries to bail them out. The hell with America.

That’s what I’m reading here from you people and it’s really unbelievable.

America comes first.

How many billions did we send to Iraq for their freedom and to build their economy while ours just go to s**t and most of you people support that.

Say goodbye to middle class.

Unbelievable

Comment from lanie438
November 20, 2008, 11:03 pm

LORAINPUBLIC: I did not appreciate the comment you posted in response to Chairman Nick Gallogly’s letter to the paper. It was ridiculously exaggerated, hypocritical and stereotypical. You truly need to get your facts in order before you add fuel to an already volatile situation.

There are slouches that refuse to do the work for which they are paid in every profession, union and non-union, and at every level. You neglected to mention all the GOOD things the union workers in Lorain County do to help the poor, the sick and the ill-advantaged people in our area.
How often do YOU donate time to deliver meals to the homebound low income senior citizens in our community? How often do you use YOUR personal and vacation time to sit at a gate in 90 degree heat and 10 degree cold and collect money for wigs for children who have lost their hair and are losing their battles with cancer, or to collect clothes and donations for homeless veterans? How often do YOU reach into your pocket and take out a $20 or $50 bill to donate to a charity, to someone battered or someone who has no home? How often do you donate hours of your own time to attend planning meetings where people are desperately brainstorming to think of new ways to help the people who need it in our community? I see this all the time from 99.9% of the people who work at Ohio Assembly, the steel plant and in the trade union jobs around the county and I am DEEPLY offended by your comments. I could continue on and on as you did in your comment, only 10x longer, about the GOOD things the union workers do for the people of our great community but I think you get my point.

How DARE you begrudge ANYONE making a good living when they slave all day in some of the worst conditions imaginable? True, some people have easier jobs than others, but my point is YOU CANNOT CLASSIFY an entire group of people as lazy, spoiled slouches when in actuality there are very few that behave as you say they behave. I see FAR better coming out of the union people than I do negative and you need to give credit where credit is due.

No one group of people is to blame for the trouble the Big 3 is facing today. The CEO’s of these companies have milked the system and our federal, state and local governments have created a completely unleveled playing field for the American auto industry by giving incentives and grants to foreign auto makers in this country. We are stuffing the foreign competition’s pockets full of money, we are bailing out the entire financial industry, but when it comes to saving the backbone of our country’s economy – MILLIONS OF JOBS, you seem completely oblivious and unwilling to help. These people bust their butts every day building award winning vans (by the way, there were more than two vans on the American market last time I checked) and they earn every dime and every benefit they get.

Another point of blame goes to the American who refuses to support American made products. Sure, you might get a better warranty with a Toyota or Kia, but remember this: When you are buying these foreign products, very little of the money goes to benefit OUR tax base and the money goes overseas to the Japanese and Chinese economy. The money the workers are paid here to work in these plants pales in comparison to the money being shipped OUT OF OUR COUNTRY in sales of these vehicles! SHAME on the active and retired autoworkers that don’t support their own industry. You should forfeit your pension if you feel that strongly about supporting the foreign auto industry! Read the sign at Local 2000’s gates: YOUR CAR WILL BE TOWED IF YOU DRIVE A FOREIGN CAR INTO THAT LOT! This goes for the media, too, who DARE to drive up in a Toyota and expect to interview a union autoworker!!!

I am sick and tired of hearing about lazy union workers lately. Go out and get a union job and see how “easy” the work is. While you’re at it, continue to run your mouth and let it aid to the closure of the plant and the consequent demise of millions of other jobs and then just see how far you will begin to reach into your pockets to cover the loss in the tax base in this county when the autoworkers aren’t being raped for taxes by the localities anymore, and when they autoworkers aren’t frequenting local stores, banks, etc. Let us see what happens when the unions no longer exist to set workplace safety rules and living wage scales in our community!

If you are so hateful, so envious and so begrudging of union workers, by all means continue your hating. Soon after, I assure you people with your attitude will be pleading for the union plants and jobs to return to the area.

Comment from thorne
November 20, 2008, 11:27 pm

I’m an Elyria native who has lived in Detroit for 12 years. I’ve run multiple auto supplier plants for the last 5 years and have over 500 employees under my watch. They like almost all of the 2.5 million workers in the domestic auto industry do not make great wages. They earn $12-14/ hr and pay over $200 per month for poor benefits. These are the people who will lose their jobs and houses with no hope of a severance or a buyout. They work very hard for what they get and they do so while taking great pride in their work. We send them home early when we have no work and they receive no supplemental pay. Yes, they are UAW workers.

My dad is a retired UAW worker from Lorain Assembly. He never preached hating management or loving the union. He taught me to do my best. I try.

The credit crisis has crippled people’s ability to buy a vehicle. This was brought on abruptly by the banks poor lending habits related to mortages and credit. These are the same people being bailed out.

My plants make parts for Chrysler, Ford, Honda and Toyota. If Ford, GM and Chrysler go bankrupt, then so does the supply base. There is no DIP credit market out there big enough to float the companies long enough for the transplants to react. If the domestic companies fail, then the lines will stop rolling at Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai too.

The posturing in D.C will stop soon enough and the money will be provided. There is no choice. The debate has been healthy.

Comment from Lorainpublic
November 21, 2008, 8:02 am

Lanie…

Frankly, I don’t care if I offended you or anyone else that’s a union member.

The problem with your post is that you failed to REFUTE any of my assertions. You couldn’t, because they are true.

You must be one deeply entrenched union lackey to demand retirees return their hard earned pensions for exercising their right to purchase what they like…and what they can depend on.

You then blame Americans for purchasing a vehicle made by another company but here in the US?

Get a clue Lanie…it’s not our fault the unions have tied corporations hands to the point that it’s cheaper to manufacture something overseas and have it shipped here.

Explain the STAINED GLASS classes for me Lanie…

Explain the DEFENSE of drunkards in the plants that have jobs because of union protection.

Comment from maerd
November 21, 2008, 9:27 am

My dad who retired from the Lorain Assembly took me 1 day with him to pick up his paycheck and showed me around the plant telling me how some workers would come in for a while then take off and have someone else clock out for them.

He then showed me some of the workers out in the parking lot buying or using drugs and if that was not enough told me about the bar across the street where workers on their lunch breaks would order a bottle of liquor or several rounds of beer knowing that they did not have enough time to get back up and order because it would be 4 to 5 rows of workers deep trying to get their order.

That was in the 70’s. When I was hired in the 90’s as a tpt
I did not see the drug activity going on or hear stories about workers leaving early and the hiring process seemed to try to get more educated people in there through testing, both academically and drug tests.

For everyone who does not know what a tpt worker is, it stands for temporay part time. These workers were hired to come in on mostly Monday’s and Friday’s to fill in for the regular’s who would call off on Friday so they could drink their paycheck through the weekend and be too sick to come in on Monday.

And through it all stands the union protecting these workers jobs.

Comment from Concerned2
November 21, 2008, 9:42 am

Lorainpublic…. is your sister a union member?

Comment from Chris Heathcote
November 21, 2008, 10:09 am

First off I blame the problem on the unions for always fighting the company and I blame the companies for not having the back bone to stand up against the unions.

Are there hard working members of the UAW in the Big 3, yes, and are their bad workers there also yes. Can the companies get rid of the bad workers? It’s very difficult.

I’ve been in over a half dozen big 3 plants and I have seen operators doing 100% inspection on parts while reading magazines and books, or playing video games. Don’t believe me? I have the pictures. I’ve seen fork truck drivers on their trucks who have fallen asleep while playing suduku. I’ve seen committee men argue with the younger union workers to not work so hard because the more senior union worker doing the same job won’t get his overtime hours. Apparently the union doesn’t just protect workers rights but also their overtime. All the plants have multiple newspaper machines outside and many workers take several papers into the plant to read during the day. I have pictures of operators falling asleep reading their papers while their machines are faulting out. I’ve seen people take things out of the cribs for their own personal use at home, (gloves, tools, etc.) I’ve seen lines down when I ask the operator what’s wrong he tells me the part elevator is off. I ask why he can’t turn it on and he tells me he used too until he got in trouble. Now he has to put in a work request for an electrician or millwright to come turn it on. After 1.5 hours the millwright came and turned it on. The “skilled trade” office/lounge was only 40ft away. I’ve seen “skilled trades” spend all day working on a machine and not fix it. Then I’ve seen a person “skilled in their trade” fix it in 20 minutes. Workers who drive their flatbed around the plant to through away a box, then leave early.

This is only a fraction of the problems on the union side.

I’ve seen plant engineers who were trained as chemical engineers working as electrical engineers, I’ve seen electrical engineering students hired in as mechanical engineers. Mechanical engineers as industrial engineers. I’ve talked with them about the improvements they are doing and instantly I can tell they don’t know what the hell they are doing. I’ve pointed out areas that their plan will fail but they do it anyway only to find out later I was right. I’ve seen management tolerate insubordinate workers because they don’t want to deal with the union. They spend months training an operator to run certain machines even though the person is retiring a month after being trained. They let their costs go over board because there is no real accountability. They have their 3 year plan where they have to make 10% improvement in HPU (hours per unit) each year. They have a plan that would improve it 30% right away but they only do it in phases because if they did it all at once they wouldn’t have any improvements the following year.

Poor management and unions are to blame, why give them money when nothing is going to change. Might as well deal with it now instead of dragging it out.

And the big 3 UAW workers don’t pay for their health benefits they pay a fraction of their health benefit costs. A very small fraction.

Comment from Concerned2
November 21, 2008, 10:25 am

Ya know what i love? Non auto workers telling other people what does and does not come out of auto workers paychecks.

THEY PAY FOR THEIR HEALTHCARE!!! $3.20 per hour .. PER HOUR never even reaches my husbands paycheck(GM HOURLY UNION WORKER) every week.

GM UNION HOURLY workers HAVE NOT RECEIVED A RAISE IN 5 YEARS!!!!!!!

There union mandadted COLA (Cost of living adjustments for all you idiots) raises …. a percentage of it goes to the Retirees Fund (VEBA).

You people are uneducated and are speaking of things you know nothing about.

If you all are so worried about how much the HARD workers make…. look up the UAW contract and read what they get….

http://jalopnik.com/cars/industry-news/full-copy-of-the-gm+uaw-white-book-out-on-internet-305511.php

Where is the website of where AIG white collars make?

Bottom line once again….. we have to pull together as a Country…. and stop this ignorance.

Lorainpublic….. Have you sister pay more attention to what she is voting on.. oh wait … MAYBE SHE SLEPT THROUGH IT!

Comment from courtneyo
November 21, 2008, 11:45 am

I think that the entire point is missing. Obviously companies do what they can to succeed. Just like the rest of us. We work hard at our jobs so we can get a raise and do better for ourselves…that’s all companies want too…is to do better, to make more money.

The problem is that it’s cheaper to rely on other countries to make the products that we buy or to assemble the products that we make. And because of that, companies that have tried to stay American are struggling. This isn’t just true for GM, Ford and Chrystler. Why would an American pay $200 for American made jeans when they can pay $35 for jeans made in China? Who’s fault is that? This whole union debate is small beans compared to the real problems in this country.

Comment from Concerned2
November 21, 2008, 11:47 am

Ya know what i love? Non auto workers telling other people what does and does not come out of auto workers paychecks.

THEY PAY FOR THEIR HEALTHCARE!!! $3.20 per hour .. PER HOUR never even reaches my husbands paycheck(GM HOURLY UNION WORKER) every week.

GM UNION HOURLY workers HAVE NOT RECEIVED A RAISE IN 5 YEARS!!!!!!!

There union mandadted COLA (Cost of living adjustments for all you idiots) raises …. a percentage of it goes to the Retirees Fund (VEBA).

You people are uneducated and are speaking of things you know nothing about.

If you all are so w